TEHRAN --An illegal U.S. surveillance system known as Echelon has led to numerous debates and discussions in and outside Europe. Following is an interview with security and intelligence expert Guillaume Dasky of the publication *** Intelligency on Line ***, in which he explains the spying system.

"The issue is not something new in Europe," Dasky said. "A New Zealand journalist had written something about it." Dasky then explained that Echelon was created by a treaty between Anglo-Saxon countries. The treaty groups the United States, Britain, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. "In 1947, these countries decided to merge all of their phone-eavesdropping devices which were used by military forces," he said. According to Dasky, there are generally two kinds of phone-eavesdropping systems: one system which is administered by military forces and another system which is used by police forces. Echelon is part of the military surveillance system.

Dasky also explained that the initial aim of Echelon was eavesdropping on Warsaw Pact members' telephone conversations. However, he believes that this target has changed over time. "The problem today, which has forced members of the European Parliament to take action, is that the system has gradually become extremely strong and enjoys extraordinary capabilities due to technical advances in the field of communications," he argued. "It is said that the network can eavesdrop on hundreds of thousands of messages each day."

Dasky said that even after the collapse of the Eastern Bloc, the network continued its operations. "The main reason behind the Europeans' anger over the existence of the network is that they believe Echelon is used for economic espionage meant to help U.S. and British companies." Asked if there is any document proving Echelon's existence, Dasky stressed that there is no doubt such a system exists. "We published a document on the CIA and the National Security Agency (NSA) confirming Echelon's existence," he said. "Echelon exists, but the main question is what its function is."

Dasky explained that the U.S. and Britain claim that the system is part of their national security systems and is used to defend their military interests. According to him, the Europeans think differently. "The Europeans believe Echelon is used for industrial espionage and is spying on their diplomats," he said.

Dasky also expressed concern over the lack of a law condemning the illegal U.S. activities. "This is the major problem. For instance, in most countries, especially in Europe, there are laws protecting the privacy of people's lives. This means that no one has the authority to spy on you or enter your house as long as your activities have nothing to do with national security," he explained. "This is true about the police but not about the military forces who are responsible for state security. There is no law to control them overseas."

Dasky said that most governments refrain from discussing Echelon because all of them posses similar spying networks with just one difference: Echelon is the most powerful. "As a result, the issue is very vague. Governments do not take any stand and it's just the members of parliaments who talk about it," he explained.

Dasky ruled out the possibility of setting up any European system to counter Echelon. "The only thing the Europeans can do is to use encryption in their communications and conversations," he said. "However, most of the U.S. technological and military services know how to break the codes." He added that encryption alone does not ensure the security of communications.

Dasky then expressed concern over Britain's role in the issue. He warned that this might lead to differences in the European Union. "The strange thing is that when the European Parliament's fact-finding commission was set up, Britain tried hard to strip the commission of its investigative powers. Britain wanted the commission to ask those who wanted' to answer, not those who were unwilling to respond," he revealed. "By doing this, Britain made itself unaccountable to the commission. However, if the European Union creates a common defense system, Britain's position would no longer be acceptable."

Considering other differences between the U.S. and Europe, such as the national missile defense (NMD) system, the Middle East crisis and the Iraq question, Dasky said that the Echelon issue has been added to the past differences, and predicted escalation of tension between the two sides in the coming years. "The new U.S. administration has done nothing to improve U.S.-Europe relations and the U.S. insistence on implementing NMD has made relations worse," he said. "I think the Echelon issue was not necessary for the outbreak of such disputes, however it was added to other differences."